Comments on: Translated for you and for many

By: liberanos

liberanos — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:18:33 +0000

Thank God they are at last giving us some proper English in the liturgy. The 1969 Mass was cobbled together by the ICEL group and the English is simply awful.
Everything does not need to be dumbed down all the time, so I for one welcome these changes.
I thought it was very uncharitable of you to say that the Holy father thinks ” too much fresh air, close the windows” Shows how little you know of the man, and how little esteem you have for his office.

By: Hung Pham

Hung Pham — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 22:42:41 +0000

I know that many people are put off with this response in the liturgy, but personally, I think that it is one of the most beautiful parts of the liturgy and the new response is definitely one of the improvements found in the new translation of the missal.

The response is actually tied to the story of the centurion found in Matthew 8, which is more evident in the words of the new translation. It is about having faith in Jesus. It has nothing to do with beating ourselves up or about how we are unworthy, but rather how through Jesus, we are worthy. It acknowledges that we are not as perfect as Jesus, but that it doesn’t matter because Jesus takes us as we are, with all of our strengths and our faults, and makes us perfect.

By: Lacey Louwagie

Lacey Louwagie — Mon, 04 Oct 2010 02:04:22 +0000

Welcome to the blog, Justin, and thanks for a great first post! I appreciate your perspective on this. I find myself incredibly resistant to this translation, and I have to check myself and ask whether I’m just having a knee-jerk resistance to change, rather than a truly heart-centered resistance to something that feels out-of-touch and somehow ill-fitting for the people of a loving God. I’m going to try to keep myself open to all sides on this issue, try not to let this be one more thing that makes me want to throw up my hands and be through with Catholicism altogether. But it is coming, and I guess I’ll see how my heart and spirit reacts as this new translation sinks into familiarity. If the same resistance remains, I’ll continue to examine it then.

By: mandyv89

mandyv89 — Mon, 04 Oct 2010 01:25:43 +0000

There is nothing constructive about your criticism, it seems rather mean spirited. You admit that you haven’t studied this which makes me think you’re simply rehashing someone else’s talking points. Why not study what’s going on and then try to help facilitate a smooth transition, people are smart enough to learn what “incarnate” means.

Since the current translation the average us Catholic mass attendance is down to 25%, prior to Vatican II it was 75% each Sunday. I certainly think its fair to think the mass had something to do with that. After all most Catholics get their primary exposure to the Church through the Sunday Mass. I for one am glad for this improved translation.

By: hcorbinspsmw

hcorbinspsmw — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 17:53:11 +0000

Justin, thank you for your reflection. You clearly expressed the outrage felt by many of us over the new translations. Having already found the current language used at mass a bit hard to take, I feel that the heiarchy has made it even worse. I translate much of the mass so that what I say and think actually matches my heart and my experiences of God. For example, instead of beating myself up and telling God “how unworthy I am to recieve him…” I say “Love, I know that we are one with you, so only say the word and I shall be healed.”
So, what will I do when this new translation takes effect? I will continue to worship God, in spirit and in truth, and in words that make sense to me.

By: eagleeye222001

eagleeye222001 — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 16:26:59 +0000

The comment that ” bishops are not like you and me,” is rather accurate. They are leaders of authority in Christ’s Church on earth and should be appropriated such recognition. To mix everyone together as the same would be to disrespect the order Christ created. Even in the Bible, Peter is given special recognition and the Apostles are commonly referred to as “The Twelve.” There is nothing wrong with recognizing the order of bishops, and in fact, it would be wrong to dismiss their teaching authority.

You questioned several instances of additions and subtractions and made rather dismissive comments on the lunacy of such changes. Ironically enough, the real question that must be raised is why we got such a translation that was so badly translated and so far off from the Latin?

Are we One Church or are we several churches differentiated by what we personally want to say in our own respected cultures? The strong argument for one language of the Mass (Latin) is that we don’t lose any meaning as the Church transcends cultures and languages. When we translate, we risk losing meaning, and as you have noticed by such large changes, we have lost a lot of meaning in our English Mass.

People who want to know Christ will appreciate the richness of the Liturgy and the theological meaning behind what we say. Those who are scared away by the new changes are those who are not looking for Christ, but their own version of Christ. These selfish people discard the true God for the god they want which is something the Israelites did several times.

The purpose of the new and better translation is not to sound better in the many words, but to preserve the deposit of faith and defend it, so that it does not become watered down and lose its meaning as it has become painfully obvious today in this great secular age. We are ONE Church…not a bunch of collected communities doing what our little hearts desire.

If Christ instituted a Church with a teaching authority guided by the Holy Spirit….then we should faithfully follow.

If Christ did not institute a Church with a teaching authority, then we might as well pack up and head home as the legitimacy of the Bible rests on the teaching authority of Christ’s Church.

By: T. Ambrose Nazianzus

T. Ambrose Nazianzus — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 04:02:40 +0000

You can now sympathize with the folks who, in the ’70s, experienced the switch over from the Extraordinary to the Ordinary form of the Mass. I can imagine they felt much as you do today.

“Words long fallen into liturgical disuse return with an insistence (“oblation,” “incarnate,” “consubstantial with the Father,” “brethren”).”

For Gregory Nazianzen, there was an important connection between little things like “consubstantial,” and how we should live as Christians. I continue to believe that. And I don’t see the harm in trying to teaching folks what these things mean, and in working with them to find the meaning of these terms in their for their lives. Or, put in a “disused” way, I want to teach folks how to make Catholic teaching incarnate in their own lives. They should stand with their brethren, in solidarity. They should, in their struggles, make an oblation to Christ of themselves everyday, in their daily lives. And we should console them, because though they recognize that they sin (and sin, and most grievously sin) everyday, through Christ (because he is consubstantial with God the Father and with humanity) the gates of heaven are open to us.

They really aren’t hard words when you use them in a sentence. I think the problem is that we presume people aren’t smart enough, or don’t particularly care enough, to learn them. Which is the same ivory tower presumption of which you have accused the Order of Bishops.